Response at Team Vine

On Wednesday, July 13th, 2022, I received this audio from a source who requested to stay unnamed. My source received it from another party who they did not name. I present it here without comment. The audio was said to have been from Team Vine on July 10th, 2022.

If anyone has reason to doubt the authenticity, please let me know. I do not know the origin of this audio, nor do I intend to find out, but I believe it is self-authenticating as it sounds like Casey Raymer and we have heard that he did address this but did not hand out the letter. The talking points sound similar to me to the letter that went out at at least Joshua Church, but I'm very interested in others perspectives.

Casey Raymer is the Lead Pastor at Vine Church in Carbondale, IL, which is the original church in The Network.

You can compare the response to the letter that Leaving the Network says was shared at Joshua Church on the same date, which claims to be from the “Network Leadership Team and Lead Pastors” across The Network.

I’ve made no cuts or edits to it beyond cleaning up noise and adjusting the overall volume level of the entire audio. Unlike normal, I haven not even done an EQ pass. This is the entire audio I received. Presumably, Vine Church has a better quality copy of it, and maybe additional information before or after this.

I will have commentary soon, but frankly, I’m exhausted. Feel free to discuss this on the reddit!

Your Health

A brief word to those of you who are trying to figure out what has been happening as you read.

I can’t begin to describe the devastation of finding that I spent years and 6-figures worth of tithes and offerings to build a church Network that was harming people. You might feel a sense of shame, betrayal, anger, or loss. Be kind to yourself, and reach out to others for support.

“Betrayal Trauma” is real, and this is all quite disorienting and may be destabilizing, for any number of reasons.. You may want to seek out mental health experts - you can find a licensed therapist at Psychology Today, or one familiar with religious trauma on Reclamation Collective.

And I say this because I myself went through suicidal ideation and it’s been reported that many others have as well: 1-800-273-8255 is the number for the National Suicide Crisis Hotline. You are not alone.

Please, please take breaks as you read, as you learn. Pause the audio and go for a walk, call a friend. Pick it up again tomorrow or in a few days. Don’t flood yourself. It’s ok, there’s time. For those of you who are Christians, Jesus is not constrained to the walls of The Network. He’ll meet you - you can pray, you can cry to him. I love the verse 1 Peter 1:13, which, paraphrased, says “set your hope fully on the grace of Christ.” That’s where our hope is - not in anyone else.

I have cried out to him. Repeatedly. If it helps, I’ve been helped by Jennifer Knapp’s song “Hold me now” (and the rest of her album “Kansas”). Take your time. When I was figuring all of this out it took months, and I had to do it on my own - there was no website, no reddit. And it was still devastating. You who are just reading this now are in a much different situation. There’s so much information that can help you, but it can be like drinking from a fire hose. It would take days to get through all of it, and you need sleep, rest, food, water, friends. Take your time. This isn’t going anywhere.

Even for those of you who are already out - this can be a lot. You may have hungered and thirsted for justice for the harm done to you for years. Pace yourself. I’m doing that right now by publishing this without the commentary I so badly wanted to provide with it.

The Audio

Transcript

Disclaimers about Transcription

As always, transcription is a “best efforts” thing. The audio itself is the authoritative content, not the transcript. If you are going to make any significant decisions or quote this on the reddit, etc, please ensure that you listen to the audio prior to doing so. Timestamps are provided to make it easier to find the quote you are looking for.

Punctuation is particularly tricky in a transcript, as the speaker doesn’t pronounce it, and people speak differently than they write. Inflection also matters greatly and cannot be translated into the transcription.

If anyone sees any significant content errors, please call them out on the reddit or by emailing me at not.overcome@outlook.com.

The Transcript

00:00

Where what I'm referring to, that some information has been made public on the internet concerning Steve Morgan, who is the founding pastor of Vine Church, and who planted Blue Sky in 2004, and Joshua Church in 2017. And back in 2006, or seven, I don't remember, agreed to lead the network of churches that we have. And I know that some of you know Steve pretty well. Some of you have never met him. And for others of you, this might be the first time you've ever heard his name. But it was it was he along with just a handful of people that started Vine Church in his living room in a rental house on the north side of Carbondale.

00:43

And I want to talk to you a little bit about what's happened. If that's okay. On Friday, information concerning the prior arrest, of Steve was made public on the internet. Some of you may have read about it. Others of you may have just heard about it. But it was made public. And basically what happened was, in 1986, when Steve was 22 years old, he engaged in a form of sexual conduct with a minor who was a male. And I am not exactly sure how old the person was 15, 16, 17. I don't know. But that took place 36 years ago. I do know Steve apologized to the family. I do know that he paid for counseling services for the minor. I have great sympathy for the victim. And it's a really bad deal. And I know for some of you, it's shocking to hear that. But it did in fact occur.

02:08

After everything took place, it was handled through the justice system. He was given a diversion agreement. Some of you may be more or less aware of what that means. But basically for three years, Steve was not allowed to break any laws, go to counseling, pass a psychiatric exam, avoiding personal contact with the victim, not be involved in any kind of youth organizations. And he successfully completed that over the course of those three years and was released from the justice system.

02:48

It's something that I know has haunted him his entire life. It's something that he did. I don't have any excuses. I honestly am brokenhearted that it happened. I agree for everybody involved, it's a very difficult thing to have to be aware of. And I hate that everything transpired.

03:22

Like I said that happened in 1986. I believe, everything was handled in the court system in 1987. He was released from the diversion agreement in 1990. And it was shortly thereafter, that Steve actually became a Christian. Some of you have heard the story of him reading Mere Christianity in the bathroom as a graduate student, at one of the universities in Michigan, and through reading that book, Jesus began the process of saving him. Steve was very much desperate for grace, painfully aware of his own sin, and Jesus saved him. Eventually he moved down here to Carbondale to go to school, and joined a church in southern Illinois, the Vineyard in Zeigler.

04:19

And after learning to follow Jesus there, he joined a small group and not long after he joined the small group, he felt like the Holy Spirit told him, it's time for you to tell your leaders everything. And, of course, Steve was aware of the fact that for him to tell his leaders everything that that thing. I think for him, everything else was so minor in comparison that it didn't even seem to exist. This was the thing that he felt like the Holy Spirit was leading him to tell his leaders. And so as a young man and a brand new Christian, Steve went with, I think, great courage and told his leaders, everything. Confessed all of his sin, everything that he had done. They began to pray for him and to help him to heal from sins that he had committed.

05:14

Some of you actually have attended the Vine Series Freedom class, or you've heard myself or others, say something like, you don't have to tell everybody everything. But you really should consider telling somebody everything. That's something that Steve taught from early on. Because he believed the fifth chapter of James, confess your sins to one another for your healing was something that God wanted us to do. And he himself had done that, and encouraged all of us to do the same. And I'm grateful because it has contributed to a culture of transparency in our church for many, many years. I know some of you when you came around Vine and people would ask you how you're doing, and really meant the question, it sort of surprised you, you know, people cared about you, they wanted to draw you out, they were interested in how you were doing. I mean, that's just one example of the culture of transparency. And this idea that we're not afraid to confess our sins because we believe that the grace of God is available to us.

06:20

A few years after that, when Steve was being ordained as a pastor in the Vineyard Association of churches, he informed his leaders there as well. That was nine years after the incident occurred. When Steve was planting Vine Church, he told the overseers at Vine, what had happened. And over the years, he's told numerous other overseers and friends as it's been deemed necessary, in order that nothing would ever be hidden, and he would always be under accountability. And I'm grateful for his willingness to share those things. He didn't hide. He walked in the light. And he made himself accountable to others.

07:01

It was a one time offense, was never repeated. It was before he was a Christian, as he was going through a very, very difficult situation in his life. Since Jesus saved him, he's exhibited godly character. He's been faithful to his wife of 27 years. And he's raised four children who are actively following Jesus. I'm so relieved that it happened once and only once. And I think the fact that Steve has been able to conduct himself with the utmost character and integrity, over the last 30 plus years of his life, since becoming a Christian, is testimony to the power of the gospel for the salvation of those who believe. It's remarkable, the transformation took place.

08:01

None of that excuses, his actions. And I know, numbers of you hearing that are in different places. Some of you might feel really angry. Those of you that know Steve well, and the degree of sacrifice that he's made over the years, the decades of service that he's offered to Jesus in the church, I think how could somebody that Steve confessed to make his sin public 36 years later, you know, and bring tremendous shame on him for the rest of his life amongst his closest family and friends, that everything had already been handled according to all the legal and biblical guidelines.

08:45

Some of you might feel angry, and I can understand that sentiment. Others of you can feel angry at Steve, that he would do such a thing. And even though it was one time many, many years ago, it's awful. It's truly awful. And I know some of you could be angry towards him as well. I think some of you are probably confused. How could something like this take place? What does it mean? What happens next? Our overseers met to discuss it for the first time yesterday for a couple of hours. We're still in the process of thinking and talking and praying and trying to figure out all that stuff. We don't have answers to every question. And I know that a lot of you're probably going to be confused and have questions and we are available to you to help you process through this. But I don't know everything that's going to happen. But we're going to work through it together through prayer and we're going to make sure that we always do what's right. According to the Bible, with a clear conscience we're gonna do what's right. And we'll, we'll get through it. We'll get through it.

09:55

I know others of you are probably scared and maybe wondering is it safe. I think that's, I think that's a fair question. I do want to reassure you that throughout our 27 year history here at Vine Church and across our network of churches, to my knowledge, there's not been a single incident of abuse take place. I'm so thankful for that. We do work very hard to make sure that that's the case. Many of you are aware that we've always done background checks on our kids program and our youth program volunteers. We've done all kinds of stuff from bulletproof glass to active shooter drills to anything, we could possibly come up with, various policies for child care to make sure that your children are safe. Just to be candid with you, my kids are back there. So you can rest assured I'm doing everything I can to make sure that they're safe.

10:56

We do have a culture, I believe, of transparency. All of our overseers are required to meet all of the biblical qualifications. And I do know that for some of you, it can be particularly difficult if you have any experience with sexual abuse. And I also want you to know that we are available to you as pastors to help in any way that we possibly can. It is one of the most grievous sins that can be committed. And it's very devastating in its effects on people. And we don't take that lightly at all. And we want to do whatever we can to help anybody in our church to heal up from that. I don't want to underemphasize, it's many of you. And I wonder if Jesus would use something like this coming out, to help you to have the courage maybe to talk to somebody and work through any of those things that you need. We're available to you to help you in any way that we possibly can. And I know I know, it's different for those of you that have that in your background, and I can understand that sentiment as well.

12:10

It's, it is a difficult thing. And I I trust that Jesus will lead Vine Church through all of this, I trust that Jesus will be in our network of churches through all of this. I I don't know the answer to every question. I like I said earlier, don't know everything that's going to take place. I do know that we're going to keep doing what we've always been doing. And all I know to do is to preach the gospel to you week after week, to do everything we possibly can to make disciples for Jesus here. And we're going to conduct ourselves with the utmost character and integrity and I can again assure you that this is a safe church and that the pastors and the leaders here are above reproach. And we're gonna get through it. We're gonna get through it.

I want to talk to you from the Bible a little bit about the grace of God. If you attend [End of audio]